Anything we do for others? True... I guess any act could be interpreted as having somewhat selfish motives ....



Of course many people spend more on themselves than others, but I'd say there is about a 30(others)/70(self) ratio, disregarding "basic" purchases (food, rent/mortgage, electricity, gas, etc). So that would be a huge chunk of the market that really DEPENDS on people buying gifts all the time.

People feel obligated to purchase things for anyone they know either out of appreciation as you said or out of "non-optional social convention" as A@H pointed out... Honestly the latter is what bothers me.

Maybe I don't understand it very well because like you said, I am quite cynical(this is an understatement), or maybe its because I'm a business major(I really gotta switch to something else someday...), or maybe I've simply never felt the need to "give a gift" to anyone because I've never personally felt that way...

Or maybe I'm just blaming it all on society and I'm actually the one who is at fault for having such a negative outlook on the world.

Yeah, that's probably it...

I guess I've always thought that simply having someone to be with would be enough for both people to be happy without having to have to buy each other gifts and whatnot... I guess that's not how it works in the real world... damn you, "non-optional social convention", ruining my childish ideals, haha...

Childish ideals can be the best ideals. I feel the same way, for the most part. I think it is great when people are content just being in the presence of one another. If someone feels the desire to give someone something, that's cool, too. The problem is that society EXPECTS you to do that, and that is stupid. What? It's Christmas? Better buy everyone in your family a present or you're a scrooge that doesn't care. The finger to social expectations. I'll buy people gifts because I genuinely want to, not because you say I should.

I agree. I don't mind buying gifts for my loved ones, but I hate the consumerist aspect of holidays.

For the most part, I go back to the roots of the holiday and just remember it is just a time to be with loved ones and appreciate each other's friendship and love. Thus, I buy them a lovely card (or I hand make it) and write down how they're an important part of my life.

I won't buy things because I have to. I'll buy things because it's something I know they'll love and they deserve to be spoiled every once in a while.

in sayonara zebutsou sensei they said people who dont earn 3.000.000 yen per year are cut off love ;_;

Fuck those guys. Older Asian generations aren't as familiar with the concept of love. Take my mother for instance. She doesn't understand it. She's only concerned about survival (ie: shelter, food, her kids) and money (which is related for survival).

She doesn't understand why I'd date someone without considering their income and social status, but she's changed a lot over the years so as long as I'm happy and managing, she's happy.

lack of money brings pressure and tension, and those two can actually break a family in two. its been said that during recession, divorce is at its peak as well... is it a coincidence.... maybe.

ive heard also that there was this joke of a survey that majority of women would rather go with a pathetic-like successful man than a broke hottie.

if youre married to a rich and wealthy guy... you dont need to work your ass off and live a punish life. you can buy all that you need, your kids can get the best.

im not saying that is what i think, but that is how i think the atmosphere is out there.

an exception for example as well can be..... a rich or just well to do woman who doesnt need a man to support her... just a man to give her all the attention she wants and some fun. then there you go, the market for the boy toy. oh, this is for real, i know a few who em... well....

I think you missed the point... SZS is a comedy that makes social commentaries about the many despair-inducing aspects of society.

Ah, never watched it That makes more sense.

Well, I don't choose my partner for the damn money. I got enough myself and I would also spend it for presents, train rides, hotels etc.
It doesn't matter to me how big the house is she lives at or if she doesn't have a car.
If we suit each other, I don't care!

I don't think a lot of people have problems with money directly. I mean I'm sure there are people who are like 'He or she is broke, we're done', but I think the vast majority of problems relating to money come because the stresses that come with low financial security put extra pressure on otherwise low-intensity problems.

Alot of people on in this site are way too unrealistic and socially conservative if they think money doesn't matter. I don't know how you can maintain that. It seems to me most shitty North Americans, Western European, East Asians, etc. think the goal of modern life is to get a "good job," by this they mean a job that pays well, has good benefits, easy working conditions compared to say busting your body and mind in a factory, etc. This is all life has reached despite the myth almost every moderner has about life heading towards the better over time teleologically thanks to advances in technology, constantly growing GDP, and improvements in techniques of economy and organization.

The best way to explain it to socially conservative, anti-social people interested in mostly escapism like many on this site is to resort to a movie called In Time. This movie posits a genetically engineered future where everyone's aging process ceases at 25, BUT after that they have to earn time to continue to live. The remaining time is displayed prominently on your forearm and everything in society costs time(not money). Those who run out of time, die. Justin Timberlake(don't remember his character's name) the main protagonist, lives in the ghetto and for most of his life beyond 25(he is 28) he has had only had roughly one day of time. Thus he is involved a constant bare struggle to survive by earning enough time to live day by day. Eventually he happens across a very wealthy man worth thousands of years from the Greenwich time zone, where all the elites in his area live. This man is sick of his predicament of "the pain of a life made easy"(Metallica) so he gives Justin the 114 years he has on his forearm. If you have a brain, which most the Hollywood following public doesn't(precisely from too much new media), this movie is an almost a 1:1 translation of our society. In real ghettos, there are people living day to day, who only can fund their lifestyle till the next day or next paycheck, thus they face constant anxiety from the existential threat that they can be banished to total poverty at any moment. However, there are also people who can cash out enough money for each of their family to live their lavish lifestyle for hundreds of years, but their assets are worth enough for their descendants to live their type of lifestyle for millennia.

The average American moves 11.7 times in a lifetime. Personally I have only moved three times, but there are lots of Americans, many that I know who seem to have moved over 20 times before their 30's. The huge underclass of tens of millions who are always on the financial brink, moving constantly, skew this statistic. There are over a billion on this planet who don't have access to clean drinking water, they drink from nearby where human refuse is dumped into water supplies, they are near-starving or perhaps starving. If you think money does not matter it can only be due to extreme delusions patterned by the worst lies of the cultural industry or that you have the comfort to live a middle tier, middle class lifestyle or higher, and you only care as far as your own nose. Most people you met in life, if the "In Time" scenario was true, would not be able to fund their lifestyle without government social programs if they lost their job, or had a serious health problem for more than a few months at most.

Our society is centered on money, your relationship to it, and how much you can spend. I make shit money, about $12.75 an hour working only extremely few hours(about 3 a day most often). I could get a different job, but I don't have the university credentials, or work experience to get enough to live independently. Also since working is the worst thing you can do in life from what I have experienced, this is what it is for now. Suppose hypothetically, I do find a mythical women that makes more and does not care about my lack of money. Does money still not matter? No, because her abundance of money versus my lack will mean she has more leverage over me in the relationship. And if I find a woman in similar financial lack will it not matter? Of course it will, because in a society built on monetary exchange, the less of it you have, the less options you have.

A good explanation of the real way money effects our options and decisions at every moment:


Anyway props to the previous posters in this thread who are not shying away from the real social reality of how money deeply affects life and social relationships. The false romantics are not doing themselves or anyone else any favors by their lack of realism and fake idealism patterned from the worst of the entertainment industry.

Man, I wish I made 12.75/hour and got the same hours I get now. I'd be pretty much set as I live as a minimalist. A dollar or two an hour can make such a difference when you are paid a low wage. Honestly, if I could get a couple more dollars, I'd be content just staying at my current job indefinitely because the job itself is pretty okay. (I work in a factory.)

Where I live even I had 40 hours with that pay rate I still would have to fucking live at home with mom. It is like $1000 just for a dive one room apartment in most of Northern NJ.

Yeah, I am grateful that I live in a low-income area for that reason. Thought about moving out west once, but when I found out that even studio apartments in places like LA could go for 750+/month, I said forget it. The town I live in has one bedroom apartments in the 550/month range. That is why 12 bucks an hour would suffice in my situation.

Where I live it's almost the same

I thought Ukraine was supposed to be a lower wage, thus lower cost of living country? Even though this should not matter, this is the first thing someone ever said to me on this forum that bothered me. So even if hypothetically I were to work 40 hours at the same wage, and there were Star Trek teleporters, I still would not be able to live independently in the Ukraine?

See this is why money and poverty matters. For some reason the insults don't matter from other forumers(I don't care they wouldn't help me in life even if they lived next door), but knowing I am too poor even for what I thought was a much lower income country is much more mentally brutal for my psyche, even in a hypothetical, non-utilitarian level.

Ha, I wish. My country is full of paradoxes - it's one of those country where the salaries stay on level of poor country, but the rent is on level of one of the richest. At least, here in capital.