Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 
Asperger's theory does about-face 
Author Message
Non-elitist
Non-elitist
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:31 am
Posts: 130
Country: Canada
Sex: Male
Mood: Infuriated
Post Asperger's theory does about-face
Quote:
Asperger's theory does about-face

Maia Szalavitz

Toronto Star

A groundbreaking study suggests people with autism-spectrum disorders such as Asperger's do not lack empathy – rather, they feel others' emotions too intensely to cope.

People with Asperger's syndrome, a high functioning form of autism, are often stereotyped as distant loners or robotic geeks. But what if what looks like coldness to the outside world is a response to being overwhelmed by emotion – an excess of empathy, not a lack of it?

This idea resonates with many people suffering from autism-spectrum disorders and their families. It also jibes with the "intense world" theory, a new way of thinking about the nature of autism.

As posited by Henry and Kamila Markram of the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Lausanne, the theory suggests that the fundamental problem in autism-spectrum disorders is not a social deficiency but, rather, a hypersensitivity to experience, which includes an overwhelming fear response.

"I can walk into a room and feel what everyone is feeling," Kamila Markram says. "The problem is that it all comes in faster than I can process it. There are those who say autistic people don't feel enough. We're saying exactly the opposite: They feel too much."

Virtually all people with autism spectrum disorder, or ASD, report various types of over-sensitivity and intense fear. The Markrams argue that social difficulties of those with autism spectrum disorders stem from trying to cope with a world where someone has turned the volume on all the senses and feelings up past 10.

If hearing your parents' voices while sitting in your crib felt like listening to Lou Reed's Metal Machine Music on acid, you, too, might prefer to curl in a corner and rock.

But, of course, this sort of withdrawal and self-soothing behaviour – repetitive movements; echoing words or actions; failing to make eye contact – interferes with social development. Without the experience other kids get through ordinary social interactions, children on the spectrum never learn to understand subtle signals.

Phil Schwarz, a software developer, is vice-president of the Asperger's Association of New England and has a child with the condition. He notes that autism is not a unitary condition – "if you've seen one Aspie, you've seen one Aspie," he says, using the colloquial term.

But, he adds, "I think most people with ASD feel emotional empathy and care about the welfare of others very deeply."

So, why do so many people see a lack of empathy as a defining characteristic of autism spectrum disorder?

The problem starts with the complexity of empathy itself. One aspect is simply the ability to see the world from the perspective of another. Another is more emotional – the ability to imagine what the other is feeling and care about their pain as a result.

Autistic children tend to develop the first part of empathy – which is called "theory of mind" – later than other kids. This was established in a classic experiment. Children are asked to watch two puppets, Sally and Anne. Sally takes a marble and places it in a basket, then leaves the stage. While she's gone, Anne takes the marble out and puts it in a box. The children are then asked: Where will Sally look first for her marble when she returns?

Most 4-year-olds know Sally didn't see Anne move the marble, so they get it right. By 10 or 11, children with developmental disabilities who have verbal IQs equivalent to 3-year-olds also get it right. But 80 per cent of autistic children age 10 to 11 guess that Sally will look in the box, because they know that's where the marble is and they don't realize other people don't share all of their knowledge.

Of course, if you don't realize others are seeing and feeling different things, you might well act less caring toward them.

It takes autistic children far longer than children without autism to realize other people have different experiences and perspectives – and the timing of this development varies greatly. But that doesn't mean, once people with autism spectrum disorder do become aware of other people's experience, that they don't care or want to connect.

Schwarz, of the New England Asperger's association, says all the autistic adults he knows over the age of 18 have a better sense of what others know than the Sally/Anne test suggests.

When it comes to not understanding the inner state of minds too different from our own, most people also do a lousy job, Schwarz says. "But the non-autistic majority gets a free pass because, if they assume that the other person's mind works like their own, they have a much better chance of being right."

Thus, when, for example, a child with Asperger's talks incessantly about his intense interests, he isn't deliberately dominating the conversation so much as simply failing to consider that there may be a difference between his interests and those of his peers.

In terms of the caring aspect of empathy, a lively discussion that would seem to support the Markrams' theory appeared on the website for people with autism spectrum disorder called WrongPlanet.net, after a mother wrote to ask whether her empathetic but socially immature daughter could possibly have Asperger's.

"If anything, I struggle with having too much empathy," one person says. "If someone else is upset, I am upset. There were times during school when other people were misbehaving and, if the teacher scolded them, I felt like they were scolding me."

Said another, "I am clueless when it comes to reading subtle cues but I am very empathic. I can walk into a room and feel what everyone is feeling and I think this is actually quite common in AS/autism. The problem is that it all comes in faster than I can process it."

Studies have found that when people are overwhelmed by empathetic feelings, they tend to pull back. When someone else's pain affects you deeply, it can be hard to reach out rather than turn away.

For people with autism spectrum disorder, these empathetic feelings might be so intense that they withdraw in a way that appears cold or uncaring.

"These children are really not unemotional. They do want to interact – it's just difficult for them," Markram says. "It's quite sad, because these are quite capable people. But the world is just too intense, so they have to withdraw."


I don't have Asperger's syndrome, so I don't know if it is true or not. I thought this might be interesting, to read. Does this apply to you?

_________________
I just want to say how proud I am today. Knowing that I have self-esteem gives me even more self-esteem. On the other hand, having all of you know that I had low self-esteem makes me feel… kind of bad… like a big failure or something… I… uh… I want to go home! ~Jane (Daria)


Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:15 am
Profile E-mail
Elitist
Elitist
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 8:36 pm
Posts: 1973
Location: 永遠亭
Country: United States
Sex: Female
Mood: Apathetic
Post Re: Asperger's theory does about-face
Well, I have Atypical Autism and I do feel sympathy and stuff really strongly. It's not Asperger's, but maybe it's related. :drool

_________________
Who are they to tell people's best interests?
http://visiunadeshiko.wordpress.com
They weren't terrified because they saw something. They saw something because they were terrified.


Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:20 am
Profile E-mail WWW
The Hashish-Eater
The Hashish-Eater
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:39 am
Posts: 6764
Country: Canada
Sex: Male
Post Re: Asperger's theory does about-face
I think this applies to me.

_________________
Puressence - Traffic Jam In Memory Lane



Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:58 am
Profile
Elitist
Elitist
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2009 10:24 pm
Posts: 2558
Location: England
Country: United Kingdom
Sex: Male
Mood: Blah
Post Re: Asperger's theory does about-face
It certainly makes sense, and i can see it in myself... Interesting how 'similar' opposites can actually be.

_________________
" I think our opposition, whoever they may be, in all their manifest forms, don't know how to handle humour."


Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:25 am
Profile E-mail WWW
Elitist
Elitist
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 1:10 am
Posts: 239
Country: United States
Sex: Female
Mood: Lethargic
Post Re: Asperger's theory does about-face
Nope. I'm a sociopath.

_________________
"Take me home mama and put me to bed."
"Hey cow girls, see the grass, don't eat it."


Thu Apr 08, 2010 2:54 pm
Profile E-mail
Parslaz Noodles
Parslaz Noodles
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:37 am
Posts: 1024
Location: Gulf coast, Texas
Country: United States
Sex: Male
Post Re: Asperger's theory does about-face
Yes, it applies to me... In fact, a while back, on Psychforums, there was actually a thread on this and it looked like most aspies were capable of empathy.

_________________
"This world of ours is not as it seems
The monsters are real, but not in your dreams
Learn what you can from the beasts you defeat,
you'll need it for some of the people you meet
"


Image


Thu Apr 08, 2010 4:16 pm
Profile E-mail YIM
My So-Called Self
My So-Called Self
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:34 am
Posts: 3347
Location: somewhere in my mind
Country: United States
Sex: Female
Mood: Indifferent
Post Re: Asperger's theory does about-face
Wow. I can completely relate to that.
"These children are really not unemotional. They do want to interact – it's just difficult for them," Markram says. "It's quite sad, because these are quite capable people. But the world is just too intense, so they have to withdraw."
That explained me as a child & explains me now.

_________________
lyricalillusions~*~Image~*~Image
ImageImage


Thu Apr 08, 2010 4:45 pm
Profile WWW
who?
who?
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2009 1:39 pm
Posts: 1840
Post Re: Asperger's theory does about-face
Wow. That's one of the most accurate descriptions of my experience of AS / HFA that I've ever read.

Basically, I'm really sensitive, and it's too much for me to process all at once, so in social situations, it's like the part of me that reacts to things emotionally shuts down; I put away emotionally stimulating things to deal with later when I'm alone or not at all.

I experience A LOT of empathy, but it's really hard to express in person, though I think I'm getting better at it with practice.

It's easier for me to express emotions and empathy in text / writing, and I use forums to sort through the emotional stuff I experience in life, so I probably come across as more emotionally normal on forums.

In person, I'm . . . internally sensitive yet externally distant.

I like to think of myself as stoic, but maybe stoicism is just my latest excuse for not even trying to deal openly with stuff that's emotionally stimulating.

Huh.


Wed May 26, 2010 11:42 pm
Profile
Non-elitist
Non-elitist
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:12 pm
Posts: 1209
Mood: Awake
Post Asperger and empathy
Doing some research on the subject of HSP I came across an interesting article about empathy in Asperger's Syndrome. Majoring in psychology I could just look things up maybe, but the information which can be derived from professional books is usually very theoretical and it seldomly involves personal perspectives and impressions. I'm very curious what you think about all of this, since - as far as I remember correctly - some people on this forum are affected. I'd like to learn what you think about it, I'd like to understand and I'd appreciate it very much if you'd share something about yourself. I'm just going to copy/paste the whole article, including the reference at the bottom:

Quote:
AUTISM
Asperger's theory does about-face
May 14, 2009

Maia Szalavitz

A groundbreaking study suggests people with autism-spectrum disorders such as Asperger's do not lack empathy – rather, they feel others' emotions too intensely to cope.

People with Asperger's syndrome, a high functioning form of autism, are often stereotyped as distant loners or robotic geeks. But what if what looks like coldness to the outside world is a response to being overwhelmed by emotion – an excess of empathy, not a lack of it?

This idea resonates with many people suffering from autism-spectrum disorders and their families. It also jibes with the "intense world" theory, a new way of thinking about the nature of autism.

As posited by Henry and Kamila Markram of the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology in Lausanne, the theory suggests that the fundamental problem in autism-spectrum disorders is not a social deficiency but, rather, a hypersensitivity to experience, which includes an overwhelming fear response.

"I can walk into a room and feel what everyone is feeling," Kamila Markram says. "The problem is that it all comes in faster than I can process it. There are those who say autistic people don't feel enough. We're saying exactly the opposite: They feel too much."

Virtually all people with autism spectrum disorder, or ASD, report various types of over-sensitivity and intense fear. The Markrams argue that social difficulties of those with autism spectrum disorders stem from trying to cope with a world where someone has turned the volume on all the senses and feelings up past 10.

If hearing your parents' voices while sitting in your crib felt like listening to Lou Reed's Metal Machine Music on acid, you, too, might prefer to curl in a corner and rock.

But, of course, this sort of withdrawal and self-soothing behaviour – repetitive movements; echoing words or actions; failing to make eye contact – interferes with social development. Without the experience other kids get through ordinary social interactions, children on the spectrum never learn to understand subtle signals.

Phil Schwarz, a software developer, is vice-president of the Asperger's Association of New England and has a child with the condition. He notes that autism is not a unitary condition – "if you've seen one Aspie, you've seen one Aspie," he says, using the colloquial term.

But, he adds, "I think most people with ASD feel emotional empathy and care about the welfare of others very deeply."

So, why do so many people see a lack of empathy as a defining characteristic of autism spectrum disorder?

The problem starts with the complexity of empathy itself. One aspect is simply the ability to see the world from the perspective of another. Another is more emotional – the ability to imagine what the other is feeling and care about their pain as a result.

Autistic children tend to develop the first part of empathy – which is called "theory of mind" – later than other kids. This was established in a classic experiment. Children are asked to watch two puppets, Sally and Anne. Sally takes a marble and places it in a basket, then leaves the stage. While she's gone, Anne takes the marble out and puts it in a box. The children are then asked: Where will Sally look first for her marble when she returns?

Most 4-year-olds know Sally didn't see Anne move the marble, so they get it right. By 10 or 11, children with developmental disabilities who have verbal IQs equivalent to 3-year-olds also get it right. But 80 per cent of autistic children age 10 to 11 guess that Sally will look in the box, because they know that's where the marble is and they don't realize other people don't share all of their knowledge.

Of course, if you don't realize others are seeing and feeling different things, you might well act less caring toward them.

It takes autistic children far longer than children without autism to realize other people have different experiences and perspectives – and the timing of this development varies greatly. But that doesn't mean, once people with autism spectrum disorder do become aware of other people's experience, that they don't care or want to connect.

Schwarz, of the New England Asperger's association, says all the autistic adults he knows over the age of 18 have a better sense of what others know than the Sally/Anne test suggests.

When it comes to not understanding the inner state of minds too different from our own, most people also do a lousy job, Schwarz says. "But the non-autistic majority gets a free pass because, if they assume that the other person's mind works like their own, they have a much better chance of being right."

Thus, when, for example, a child with Asperger's talks incessantly about his intense interests, he isn't deliberately dominating the conversation so much as simply failing to consider that there may be a difference between his interests and those of his peers.

In terms of the caring aspect of empathy, a lively discussion that would seem to support the Markrams' theory appeared on the website for people with autism spectrum disorder called WrongPlanet.net, after a mother wrote to ask whether her empathetic but socially immature daughter could possibly have Asperger's.

"If anything, I struggle with having too much empathy," one person says. "If someone else is upset, I am upset. There were times during school when other people were misbehaving and, if the teacher scolded them, I felt like they were scolding me."

Said another, "I am clueless when it comes to reading subtle cues but I am very empathic. I can walk into a room and feel what everyone is feeling and I think this is actually quite common in AS/autism. The problem is that it all comes in faster than I can process it."

Studies have found that when people are overwhelmed by empathetic feelings, they tend to pull back. When someone else's pain affects you deeply, it can be hard to reach out rather than turn away.

For people with autism spectrum disorder, these empathetic feelings might be so intense that they withdraw in a way that appears cold or uncaring.

"These children are really not unemotional. They do want to interact – it's just difficult for them," Markram says. "It's quite sad, because these are quite capable people. But the world is just too intense, so they have to withdraw."

Maia Szalavitz writes about the intersection of mind, brain and society for publications like Time online, The New York Times, Elle and MSN Health. She is co-author, most recently of Lost Boy, the memoir of Brent Jeffs, a young man raised in Mormon fundamentalist polygamy. She is also senior fellow at the media watchdog organization stats.org.

http://www.healthzone.ca/health/article/633688

_________________
Ich leg meine Hand in das Feuer vom Würstchengrill unten am Fluss
dafür, dass nicht alles umsonst war
und jeder nur tut, was er muss
Deinen Namen hab ich vergessen, deine Nummer fällt mir nicht ein
Einen Ring hab ich niemals besessen und einsam will ich nicht sein


Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:36 am
Profile E-mail
Where Is My Mind?
Where Is My Mind?
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2009 4:32 pm
Posts: 1884
Country: United Kingdom
Sex: Male
Post Re: Asperger and empathy
This was posted before: topic1376.html?hilit=empathy

I thought I had posted in that thread, but apparently not. I was diagnosed with AS a while back, for me I feel like my ability to feel empathy is completely out of wack. Sometimes, say if I'm watching something on tv about people with life effecting disabilities, people whose lives maybe remind me of mine somehow, I can find myself feeling incredibly empathetic towards them. But then in real life, when I'm dealing with my family, a lot of the time it's only later on when I have some time to digest things that I realise how oblivious I've been to how they might feel about things. I don't know maybe it's in the moment I'm very focused on how I'm feeling so I don't give much though to others. Something like that.


Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:22 pm
Profile E-mail
Non-elitist
Non-elitist
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 29, 2012 6:12 pm
Posts: 1209
Mood: Awake
Post Re: Asperger and empathy
Oh thank you. I'm sorry. Would you mind copy/pasting there what you've written here and inform me about it? As soon as I hear from you, I'll ask a staff member to delete this thread.

_________________
Ich leg meine Hand in das Feuer vom Würstchengrill unten am Fluss
dafür, dass nicht alles umsonst war
und jeder nur tut, was er muss
Deinen Namen hab ich vergessen, deine Nummer fällt mir nicht ein
Einen Ring hab ich niemals besessen und einsam will ich nicht sein


Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:42 pm
Profile E-mail
All Love is Pure in its Depravity; All Innocence is Sincere in its Deception
All Love is Pure in its Depravity; All Innocence is Sincere in its Deception
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 2:44 pm
Posts: 4873
Mood: Listless
Post Re: Asperger and empathy
No need. I can simply merge the topics.

_________________
ImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImageImage
ImageImage
Ask Soulless a Question!
Image
I deceive everyone, I destroy everything
And the place where light used to shine now remains
Pulled away from my heart, here no longer
Yet still I stay captive to my avarice chains


Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:35 pm
Profile E-mail
Turtle Girl
Turtle Girl
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2009 8:00 am
Posts: 1891
Sex: Female
Post Re: Asperger's theory does about-face
I'm an aspie.
No, the theory doesn’t apply to me. Although Kamila Markram is right about one thing: I do feel too much (or too strongly) but not related to empathy.

(possibly because) I feel only one thing at a time, what I do feel is extremely powerful, whether it’s happiness, grief, anger, or whatever

_________________
"And the turtles, of course...all the turtles are free, as turtles and, maybe, all creatures should be." — Dr. Seuss


Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:32 am
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 13 posts ] 

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Jump to:  
Free forum hosting is powered by phpBB. Designed by STSoftware.